Author Topic: Let's discuss...  (Read 1220 times)

Offline Gaven13

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,117
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« on: 07/22/12 13:17:34 »
Religion.

As adults. Honestly. I've been studying religion for more than a decade, and I'm very interested to know what people believe and what you think. Be it Atheist, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Agnostic, Scientologist, whatever...I'm interested to hear your views and opinions.

No Flaming each other, people, come now, we're all adults.

Offline Nessarose deWinter

  • Member
  • Posts: 14,002
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Her bubbly sweetness of dark terror
    • http://swdescension.com/
Let's discuss...
« Reply #1 on: 07/22/12 20:15:02 »


Sorry, couldn't help it. But seriously. This thread is already scaring me

Offline Methias Fiore

  • Member
  • Posts: 342
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #2 on: 07/22/12 20:48:25 »
I am an adult, but I believe I will stay out of this one. For adults are often the worst kind within these discussions when I'm sure there are many who believe very strongly in their beliefs and believe they are on the right path - and really, they have the right to and they have the right to be proud of who they are and what they believe. As long as your a good person and treat people with kindness it shouldn't matter what you believe.

Offline AvadreiaLacroix

  • Member
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #3 on: 07/22/12 23:38:14 »
I'm a Protestant Christian. The Bible informs my morality, but I'm a New Testament believer. I don't go for those Christians who use their faith as a bludgeon against others. Christ dying for my sins means that my sins are forgiven, not that His sacrifice imbued me with some magical power to see into the hearts of others and condemn them.

I'm about to leave my church because they are splitting away from the main body over the issue of homosexual priests. In my mind, Christian faith should force you to look into your own life and make improvements where you think God may be dissatisfied. Even accepting the dogmatic thinking that homosexuality is a sin shouldn't disqualify them from the priesthood in my church, because under the terms of my religion we are all sinners.

As for other religions, they're all fine by me as long as they're respectful (and not blowing people up). Unfortunately it has become rather trendy in the United States to mock Christians in the mass media; Catholics are shown as needlessly patrician and anti-woman while Protestants are portrayed as dumb, corn-fed hicks. A culture of militant irreligiousness has made it almost impossible to carry on a conversation about comparative religion without deteriorating into an argument.

Offline Karin Dorn

  • Member
  • Posts: 337
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #4 on: 07/23/12 03:51:14 »
I'm an atheist who doesn't care what you believe in as long as you're not a cunt about it.

Offline Razberry

  • Member
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • I'm pretty much a derp
Let's discuss...
« Reply #5 on: 07/23/12 07:00:43 »
Lessee...I was raised Protestant by one side of my family, the other side tried to raise me as some kind of faux-Wiccan, and eventually I just kinda got tired of everyone's moralistic bullshit and decided to be undecided. I wouldn't call myself an atheist or an agnostic or anything quite so official. There's a rather large number of people who answer to the word "agnostic" who simply don't care about any of this spiritual stuff. I'm in that faction. So long as people don't try to hide behind religion to support their biggotry (as is incredibly common where I come from), I could care less what they believe. It's none of my business.

Offline Valiens Nantaris

  • Member
  • Posts: 140
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #6 on: 07/26/12 14:46:18 »
Karin says it far better than I could have.

Ava, that's a very good view, and I wish more of every kind of religion and non-religion could be accepting and not needlessly combative.

Offline Karin Dorn

  • Member
  • Posts: 337
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #7 on: 08/16/12 02:49:03 »
What can I say, I'm just oh-so-articulate.

Offline Daryk Fargo

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #8 on: 09/13/12 01:38:04 »
Protestant Christian here, but probably the kind that everyone hates. While I have no desire to judge others or attack them for being different, that doesn't mean that I condone what I believe the Bible says is sin, nor do I ignore it when it is happening around me. I have always been loving to people around me, whether they agree with me or not - and they would say that is true.

Somewhere along the lines we decided that it's impossible to disagree with someone and still be their friend.

Again, I'm the kind most people hate - Yes, I believe that others are wrong. Yes, I call 'sin' sin. Yes, I think I'm right. But no, I'm not carrying signs or yelling in people's faces about any of these things. For people that I have an opening to speak what I believe is Truth into their lives, I will do so unashamedly, and kindly. For those I have no opening with, I will simply be their friend.

And back to Nessa's picture with the Bible and Spiderman, it made me laugh. The sad part, though, is that many people view those in the same realm without actually looking at the historical, cultural, and mathematical (dealing in statistics as far as what most ancient texts end up looking like, and how they are preserved) significance of the Bible and realizing that at the very least, it is worthy of respect. Also, I don't simply take the Bible as the only evidence of God, but see it everywhere - including in my own life

Sorry, late reply, but wasn't here when it went up and found it interesting. Two things you never talk about online:  Religion, and politics. I like to talk about both. Call me a rebel .....

Offline Carth Mayweather

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #9 on: 09/14/12 01:12:01 »
I'm an atheist... In my opinion, religion is something that humanity gradually needs to get rid of (no offence to anyone religious, it's not you I have a problem with). Religion, although great for bringing people closer together, causes many bad things to happen. By bad things, I mean everything from war to casual discrimination. As long as religion is around, there are going to be people who disagree with that religion, or people who want to impose their religion on others. Plainly, it just causes problems.

How is humanity supposed to band together when conflicting faiths and beliefs stop us? Now I'm not saying that there's people who can't co-exist, I'm saying there will always be fanatics who (pardon the french) fuck things up. One example is Al Quaeda. My opinion would probably be different if religion was just one universal belief... But that's never going to happen.

Offline Darth Immortus

  • Member
  • Posts: 822
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #10 on: 09/14/12 12:02:36 »
Religion brings culture.  Eliminating religion from the world inevitably eliminates a great deal of human culture, and while it might be nice to see certain violent, sinister religions and cultures kick the bucket, taking the axe to all religion would not be good for all.

I don't know about you, but I never want to live in a world where everyone is the same.

Offline Kiskla Grayson

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #11 on: 09/14/12 14:28:39 »
This is very out of context, but with the three of you in a column...

You could be related.

Maybe it's the collars.

Offline Carth Mayweather

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #12 on: 09/14/12 15:58:29 »
Haha, what an observation.

Offline AvadreiaLacroix

  • Member
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #13 on: 09/15/12 02:37:07 »
It's not religion that causes "casual discrimination," it's human nature.

People will always feel the need to make unlike people into "others" and thus inferior to handle their own insecurities. It's a part of human nature; getting rid of religion will not eliminate that part of human nature. Generally, but not universally, religion has been helpful in channeling the energies of people to get rid of other undesirable parts of human nature by promoting monogamy, family, and charity.

Unfortunately, as long as the word of God is interpreted by man, it will be perverted to some degree or another, but as far as my religion, I think protestantism has done a decent job. You have intolerant people in every religion but my intolerant people pray for you; they don't behead you or set you on fire (I'm looking at you, Catholics--KIDDING!).

Offline Ivata Noku

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #14 on: 09/24/12 15:52:10 »
Quote from: Carth Mayweather
I'm an atheist... In my opinion, religion is something that humanity gradually needs to get rid of (no offence to anyone religious, it's not you I have a problem with). Religion, although great for bringing people closer together, causes many bad things to happen. By bad things, I mean everything from war to casual discrimination. As long as religion is around, there are going to be people who disagree with that religion, or people who want to impose their religion on others. Plainly, it just causes problems.

How is humanity supposed to band together when conflicting faiths and beliefs stop us? Now I'm not saying that there's people who can't co-exist, I'm saying there will always be fanatics who (pardon the french) fuck things up. One example is Al Quaeda. My opinion would probably be different if religion was just one universal belief... But that's never going to happen.
I don't think I'll make any comments about my religions beliefs, but as a constructive comment to this post, I'd like to chime in that some humans are inherently bad people that will kill others or start a war and get other people to kill for them. I know that religion has been the cause of wars but if not religion, then something else. I promise. Eliminate religion and maybe people will start killing over hair color or how tall you are but humans are empowered by conflict with or without religion.


Offline Xaedrin Vondiranach

  • Member
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's discuss...
« Reply #15 on: 09/25/12 04:07:41 »
Quote from: Carth Mayweather
I'm an atheist... In my opinion, religion is something that humanity gradually needs to get rid of (no offence to anyone religious, it's not you I have a problem with). Religion, although great for bringing people closer together, causes many bad things to happen. By bad things, I mean everything from war to casual discrimination. As long as religion is around, there are going to be people who disagree with that religion, or people who want to impose their religion on others. Plainly, it just causes problems.

How is humanity supposed to band together when conflicting faiths and beliefs stop us? Now I'm not saying that there's people who can't co-exist, I'm saying there will always be fanatics who (pardon the french) fuck things up. One example is Al Quaeda. My opinion would probably be different if religion was just one universal belief... But that's never going to happen.
The conversation caught my attention, and I felt the need to respond - even though nobody wants to hear my opinions.  Offending people is not what I came here to do, but, well, it's a religious conversation, so I probably will anyway.  My bad.  

1.   Religion should be eliminated, no offenseDo you know what "no offense" means?  Because for someone who is religious, that's offensive.  Someone who holds a religious view holds it as the nearest and dearest thing to their heart.  Telling them that what is most important to them should be gotten rid of is offensive, and is inseparable from who they are.  It's like me saying, "I think you're the ugliest person on the planet and I hope you die in a train wreck - no offense."  It is offensive, no matter how you slice it.  Yes, we're all entitled to our opinions, but if you're going to spout an all too common offensive (as well as an elitist, intolerant) opinion, don't couch it with the phrase "no offense" as if you're just thrown "bless his heart" onto the end of saying someone is mentally defective in the south.  Which brings me to this:  No one in the world can ever again claim that "religious people are intolerant" without throwing in, "and so are atheists."  While no religious opinions offered have been intolerant, your response calls for the eradication of religious beliefs.
2.   Religion causes bad things (like war and discrimination)"Wars have been fought over religion" ... I can't tell you how many times people who hate (bigots against religion?  Yeah, it happens often.) religion bring this one up.  Let's examine that claim for a moment.  Which wars?  The Crusades?  Meh, kind of.  Actually, the crusades were fought over power and wealth. If you study the history of the crusades you'll find that political figures used religion as a rallying point for the uneducated masses, but that is not the same as religion being the cause.  No, in reality the dark ages, politics, and grabs for power and wealth caused the crusades.  What other wars were fought because of religion?  Yes, there have been some, I won't deny it.  How about recently?  How about in the last 500 years?  300 years?  100 years?  50 years?  Yes, there are cases of Islamic extremism that you can say are caused by religion, but you said all religion.  Are you sure about that?  Or are you overly generalizing the actions of the few to the billions that hold religion?  The idea that religion causes war ignores history and is prejudiced thinking in and of itself. Even if religion did cause wars - or does - is that a reason to eliminate it?  Let's consider that claim for a moment.  Guess what else has caused many wars throughout history - Freedom.  Should we eliminate freedom because it causes wars?  Your argument is a straw man fallacy that has been perpetuated for generations, that is such a forceful lie that people have bought into it without even thinking.As for discrimination - Man causes discrimination, and it has little to do with religion.  Many religious texts forbid discrimination, even the ones that make exclusive truth claims.  But the reality is that you aren't religious, yet you are discriminating against religious people simply in saying that their views and opinions don't have a right to exist.  "Hello pot, I'm kettle - you're black."
3.   Religion just causes problemsI saw a statistic recently that showed that somewhere around 75% of all humanitarian aid in the world comes from religious organizations.  Whether that percentage is high or not, I don't know, but there is absolutely no denying that the bulk of humanitarian aid comes from faith based organizations.  Statistics also show that conservative, religiously minded individuals give nearly 80% of the money given to charity in America.  Religion just causes problems?  You sure you even want to stick with that claim?  What has the local atheist assembly done to help the poor and the sick?  I'm curious.  Yes, there are some wonderful philanthropic atheists who give to charity and donate their time.  But rarely - if ever - do you see an entire group of atheists gather for that purpose, or found an organization for the purpose of providing aid to people in need.  On the other hand, faith-based groups do so regularly around the world.  Let's compare all of the aid given by religious folks with that given by atheists, and then we can come back and discuss whether religion does nothing but cause problems.  This is what we call an ad hominem fallacy; you've attacked your opponent's character without providing concrete facts beyond your bias.
4.   How can humanity band together with conflicting faiths stopping usHas anyone here created a divide that can't be bridged?  Has anyone said that no one who doesn't believe in God has the right to hold that view?  Or has the only comment that has actually stopped people from banding together been from one who said that religion should be eliminated?
5.   My opinion would be different if religion was just one universal belief.You'd be good with it if everyone agreed with you, in other words?  People play this "can't we all just get along" card brilliantly, but then comment that religion should be done away with; that's not getting along, that's being intolerant and bigoted.
Like any good thing, religion has at times been hijacked for bad things.  That's the story of everything in the world.  There are so many good things in this world that are constantly used for bad purposes, but that doesn't mean that we eliminate them.  I'll close with one last, ridiculous example.
In a world so unbelievably driven by sexual urges, there are so many disgusting crimes that would be eliminated if we chemically castrated every member of the human race.  Because of sexual desires, we have rape, incest, child pornography, sexual abuse, sex slaves, even murder and physical abuse are linked to sexual desire.  Clearly, sexual desire only causes problems, right?  Why don't we just chemically castrate every member of the human race.  Problem solved?
Clearly, I'm passionate about this.  My comments are probably offensive, but that's because it's a volatile subject.  My goal is not to be a jerk, but to have a real discussion in which I feel religion is being extremely unfairly represented.  Those of you who know me know hopefully can attest to the fact that I'm not a mean-spirited person.  But I was, to be honest, a little pissed.  I tried to read over this several times to edit out as much of my frustration as I could, but well, that's not always easy to do, and this is the result.
« Last Edit: 09/25/12 04:12:30 by Xaedrin Vondiranach »